loli, trans_loli, futa, etc

Not to step on any toes here, I know trans people can get a bit sensitive about how they are viewed and addressed, but can we establish some rules here for the these tags, when they should be used, and how they relate?

To me, tags are all about describing what's in the picture so that people can find what they want to jack off to.

tl;dr: I don't want to jack off to a loli with a dick.

Can we establish that tagging trans girls as loli if they still have a penis as just "loli" doesn't match the intention of the loli tag? Or do I just have to suck it up?

I agree. Also, on the other side of it, I would assume that the people who do want to jerk it to boys in dresses would like to be able to find such images by searching a specific tag. Practicality should rule in this case given the function that this site serves.

A good example of this that I came across when tagging recently was Lily Hoshikawa from Zombieland Saga, which is unfortunately a spoiler for me since I hadn't seen ZLS yet :(

The wiki for ZLS uses female pronouns and mentions she's the first transgender character in a "popular idol franchise" (weird I didn't think ZLS would be described that way...) and that it isn't even HINTED at until episode 17 where even then it's incredibly subtle (color combination of hair + bow, entering men's bathroom)

Apparently that was enough for this to make all the art clearly depicting Lily as MTF though.

I'm fine with it, I'd probably fap to it, but I definitely understand why we should have a good conversation about how to tag it.

Obviously "loli" is going to offend those who don't want to see their lolis with dicks, while "shota" would offend those who accept Lily as a girl.

I despite underscores and like to avoid them wherever possible, so I'd prefer "transloli" to "trans_loli" if we go that route. Much as I've been using "futaloli" rather than "futa_loli"

We could probably benefit from studying how the furry community handles this. In the case of e621 they use the umbrella "crossgender" as oppose to "transgender" and they have a big dropdown display at https://e621.net/wiki_pages/851

Their version of "futa" is "intersex" which falls under four types:
andromorph "An intersex character with a masculine body type, a pussy instead of a penis, and no breasts."
gynomorph "entirely female in appearance but has a penis, balls, or both instead of a pussy"
herm "characters with both a pussy and a penis. "
maleherm "A hermaphrodite who has a masculine appearance, generally emphasized by a lack of breasts."

I don't know if we want to aspire to that level of complexity, though with copying loli/shota stuff over from there we're bound to get the tags anyway.

If we're going to be making unique loli/shota based tags for this booru anyway, we might experiment with further levels of brevity in constructing portmanteaus. For example what if instead of futaloli/futashota we called them foli and fota?

Although now that I think about it, I don't instinctively know the difference...

Some of the special e621 are based on whether or not futas have breast development which obviously is going to be a lot harder to diagnose with loli futas since their mosquito bites get confused with shota chests on occasion.

Zephiris said:

Not to step on any toes here, I know trans people can get a bit sensitive about how they are viewed and addressed, but can we establish some rules here for the these tags, when they should be used, and how they relate?

To me, tags are all about describing what's in the picture so that people can find what they want to jack off to.

tl;dr: I don't want to jack off to a loli with a dick.

Can we establish that tagging trans girls as loli if they still have a penis as just "loli" doesn't match the intention of the loli tag? Or do I just have to suck it up?

"girls" with a penis are not loli.
tag them as young_newhalf or young_futanari...

tyc said:

Following the furrys' lead is never a good idea. Simply using the tag "transsexual" for characters to whom it could apply would simplify matters. Keep It Simple, Stupid, as they say.

zx29b said:

Following the furrys' lead is never a good idea. Simply using the tag "transsexual" for characters to whom it could apply would simplify matters. Keep It Simple, Stupid, as they say.

there's an obvious difference between a futanari/hermaphrodite (both parts) vs someone born one sex who identifies as other

I think we should probably also somehow differentiate between mere crossdressers like Guilty Gear's Bridget (who constantly refers to self as male) vs transgender-IDers like Lily Hoshikawa (who refers to self as female)

there's an obvious difference between a futanari/hermaphrodite (both parts) vs someone born one sex who identifies as other

You have a point there. One is a genetic anomaly, and the other merely lives a fantasy. Luckily, we already have a futanari tag to cover those characters to which it applies, so all we need is the one other tag to cover the gender larpers.

I don't think we have to get complicated here. Just a question of should loli and transloli be mutually exclusive (Like how loli and shota are mutually exclusive in describing a single character.)

I think they should be, IE: I wouldn't mind seeing a transloli giving dick to a loli, so I don't want to blacklist transloli outright, but I also don't want to see solo focus of transloli. I want to wank to characters with vaginas, and I don't care if it's a trans character doing the stuffing.

To that end, just shoving "transexual" alongside loli doesn't resolve that issue I don't think.

Also, wtf is young_newhalf even supposed to mean? Am I the only one who thinks tags should be self explanatory and objective?

a newhalf has penis, testicles and breasts. a futa has penis and vagina.
now you know what young_newhalf/young_futanari means?
and please, dont create fantasy tags like transloli

namekianer said:

a newhalf has penis, testicles and breasts.

You just described Gregg Williams and Alex Rodriguez.

and please, dont create fantasy tags like transloli

Not sure if serious.

Lilyi s a trap, not trans

diapershota said:

Lilyi s a trap, not trans

So, a transvestite? They have "trans" in their name!

zx29b said:

So, a transvestite? They have "trans" in their name!

Different ideas.

Transvestite just means you wear the clothing of the opposite sex.

Trap means you PASS as the opposite sex (whether you try to or not)

A male in male clothing is not a transvestite yet might still be perceived as a girl wearing guy's clothes: that's a trap.

tyc said:

Different ideas.

Transvestite just means you wear the clothing of the opposite sex.

Trap means you PASS as the opposite sex (whether you try to or not)

A male in male clothing is not a transvestite yet might still be perceived as a girl wearing guy's clothes: that's a trap.

"Might still be perceived as"--it is reflexive then, meaning that the difference between a trap and a transvestite is that an observer sees them differently. The supposed difference is in the observer's eye alone; there is no categorical difference inherent in the subjects themselves. Cesi n'est pas une pomme.