Loli post guideline

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There's this one piece I remembered uploading to Paheal back in June 2011 (wow is that really over a DECADe ago?) which I'm pretty confident the mods wouldn't like but I think it serves a pretty valuable role in our culture:

Swedish: https://rule34.paheal.net/post/view/667070
English: https://rule34.paheal.net/post/view/667069

The characters are a 17 year old girl and a 27 year old man and basically I think the value in regards to our community is how the text takes a potshot at the laws condemning drawn erotic of minors (anyone under 18)

Obviously it can't be that young-looking or it would've fallen victim to Paheal's progressive loli purges but in terms of shit that would cause you IRL drama it would still qualify.

I am going to avoid uploading because that'd be asking for it, but I do appeal to mods to at least read it and realize that it does have a relation to our subculture. It deserves to be acknowledged in conversation even if the teen underage girl in it doesn't meet ATF's standards of neoteny for hosting the image itself.

The characters are a 17 year old girl and a 27 year old man and basically I think the value in regards to our community is how the text takes a potshot at the laws condemning drawn erotic of minors (anyone under 18)

There is nothing left to say about that which has not already been said. The plain fact that legal consent is a nonsense concept is already a given, as is the equally plain fact that laws are created and enforced neither by reasonable justification nor by popular will. Posting truisms does not constitute any kind of resistence to those realities. Resistence is in the deed! Post the little girls that the law forbids.

Nonsensicalness being a given and facts being plain are pretty subjective things: it seems like that to us but normies might need a nudge. The Swedish comic with the buxom teen loli seems like one of those normy-palatable gateway brain-stimulating things that won't completely shut off their brain like a DFC-tier loli.

tyc said:

Nonsensicalness being a given and facts being plain are pretty subjective things: it seems like that to us but normies might need a nudge. The Swedish comic with the buxom teen loli seems like one of those normy-palatable gateway brain-stimulating things that won't completely shut off their brain like a DFC-tier loli.

Any "normie" who happens upon this place can only be a cop. The site's marquee image is a little catgirl with her skirt hiked up and her pussy on display. "Normies" do not hang out in dens of immorality like this reading comics.

zx29b said:

Any "normie" who happens upon this place can only be a cop.
"Normies" do not hang out in dens of immorality like this reading comics.

Right but this is an image database we might use to track things pertinent to our culture to share with normies by copying it and pasting it elsewhere. I do that sometimes.

tyc said:

Right but this is an image database we might use to track things pertinent to our culture to share with normies by copying it and pasting it elsewhere. I do that sometimes.

In terms of practical utility, you have a point. I would balk at saying that what we have is a culture as opposed to just a fandom. The little things that we share with non-fans are just memes, and the years since 2009 have shown us just how shitty memes are at effecting any meaningful change. I say that we are better off just enjoying our little corner of internet and treating the outside world as a source of amusement rather than a potential recruiting ground, just like the old newsgroups and chantards did back in the good old days.

I would balk at saying that what we have is a culture as opposed to just a fandom.

What's the difference?

It's not like we're fans of just a single show: we're fans of HUNDREDS of shows and a collective sense of erotica including massive crossover artworks and the historical documentation of accomplished artists.

I'd dare say we're more of a culture than a lot of religions and even nations TBH

The little things that we share with non-fans are just memes, and the years since 2009 have shown us just how shitty memes are at effecting any meaningful change.

Nothing is just memes... and all meaningful changes happened via memes, it's just some memes outcompete other memes.

I say that we are better off just enjoying our little corner of internet and treating the outside world as a source of amusement rather than a potential recruiting ground, just like the old newsgroups and chantards did back in the good old days.

It's not really about 'recruitment' so much as winning arguments where necessary.

Also the corners get persecuted: Paheal used to be our corner until they banned babies then toddlers, soon to be all preteen lolis and probably even teen lolis.

At some point we need to try to stand our ground at least verbally.

What's the difference?

A culture, as ill-defined a term as it is, is the sum of the superstructural products of a given social reality. A fandom is just a group of people whose only collective bond is a shared interest in a given topic. The latter is us.

It's not like we're fans of just a single show: we're fans of HUNDREDS of shows and a collective sense of erotica including massive crossover artworks and the historical documentation of accomplished artists.

Sci-fi geeks, gamers, fantasy fans, theater buffs, ravers, freaking book clubs, and everyone else with a mass-consumed passtime could say the exact same thing. They are not cultures just things that people play around with to temporarily forget about the misery of life. If you want to see a group of fans that approaches the line between fandom and culture then sports and music fans get a whole hell of a lot closer to the line than we do. They have their own moral codes, myths passed on by tradition, elaborate rituals, factions, and--for all intents and purposes--temples. Their cultures are artificial, but they ape tribal culture in many respects. In contrast, the only thing that we share is that we look at naked cartoon children.

I'd dare say we're more of a culture than a lot of religions and even nations TBH

Religions and nations are not cultures, although nationalists will vehemently and stupidly argue the contrary. Anthropologically speaking, cultures form around societies with a system of production that differs significantly from those systems around them. What makes religions and nations not cultures is that, when they are finished worshiping at their chosen alters and performing their rituals of belonging, they then go home or to work and live their lives just like people of similar social standing with different faiths and nationalities do. For example, a Canadian muslim city-dwelling computer programmer lives a life that is remarkably similar to a Spanish catholic city-dwelling computer programmer. Culture is about that way of life.

Nothing is just memes... and all meaningful changes happened via memes, it's just some memes outcompete other memes.

Memes have never accomplished a single thing apart from making the person who posts them look foolish to those not in his clique.

It's not really about 'recruitment' so much as winning arguments where necessary.

Who needs to argue? We are not a movement. We do not have a cause. Fuck that noise. E-movements always end up looking like clowns the way that Chanology and tumblr and /pol/ did.

Also the corners get persecuted: Paheal used to be our corner until they banned babies then toddlers, soon to be all preteen lolis and probably even teen lolis.

Arguing does nothing to change that. Censorship is not contingent upon popular will. The fact is that the internet belongs to people with a particular business model, and that model works better when the fun--but ultimately toothless--online counterculture that used to be is squeezed into non-existence by a thousand barriers. Never forget that we are communicating on servers that private individuals and business entities own, and they are located in countries that are also owned by those very same individuals and business entities in varying ratios. Do you know why this site does not allow "photo-realistic" images or even outright CP? It is because businesses have terms of service, and countries have laws. Do not delude youself into believing that we have any control over either laws or terms of service. They are dictates handed down by owners acting in their own interests.

At some point we need to try to stand our ground at least verbally.

People using their servers to argue IS their business model. "Stand our ground?" Hell, we don't even own the ground that we stand on. It's all private property. There are viable avenues of resistance, but arguing on the internet is not one of them.

A culture, as ill-defined a term as it is, is the sum of the superstructural products of a given social reality.
A fandom is just a group of people whose only collective bond is a shared interest in a given topic. The latter is us.

I don't know if we can really just consider this a single topic. I feel like we have more memetic complexity than a lot of so-called cultures.

Sci-fi geeks, gamers, fantasy fans, theater buffs, ravers, freaking book clubs, and everyone else with a mass-consumed passtime could say the exact same thing.

Perhaps some might, but others identify what they call "Geek Culture" even to the point of having tags/sites about the concept.

They are not cultures just things that people play around with to temporarily forget about the misery of life.

Can you give me an example of something that IS a culture?

I see us as a valid social reality on par with many others. We're just not an accepted one.

Is there 'gay culture' or 'black culture'? Cultures of nations, cultures of religions, cultures of ethnicities?

If you want to see a group of fans that approaches the line between fandom and culture then sports and music fans get a whole hell of a lot closer to the line than we do.
They have their own moral codes, myths passed on by tradition, elaborate rituals, factions, and--for all intents and purposes--temples.

Different codes, different myths, different rituals, different factions, different temples.

It's not like they're collectively "the music culture" or something like that.

In terms of a consistent theme, I think our focus on the freedom of thought, the sharing of complex artwork and ideas, for all the differences in taste I think we share a much more cohesive focal theme than some banal "I like to go to a concert and jump around in a crowd of people".

Ours is a persecuted antisocial culture in the shadows so naturally we will have huge differences from mainstream ones which makes it hard to perceive ourselves.

Their cultures are artificial, but they ape tribal culture in many respects. In contrast, the only thing that we share is that we look at naked cartoon children.

That's self-dismissive. We don't just look, we evaluate. We compare. We inspire, we brainstorm. We're having this conversation right now.

Religions and nations are not cultures, although nationalists will vehemently and stupidly argue the contrary. Anthropologically speaking, cultures form around societies with a system of production that differs significantly from those systems around them.

Could it be perhaps that like many words, culture has different definitions with different requirements for varying uses? Perhaps there is a more specific term for what you term culture, or if not, some alternate term for what I am thinking of when I say culture.

What makes religions and nations not cultures is that, when they are finished worshiping at their chosen alters and performing their rituals of belonging, they then go home or to work and live their lives just like people of similar social standing with different faiths and nationalities do. For example, a Canadian muslim city-dwelling computer programmer lives a life that is remarkably similar to a Spanish catholic city-dwelling computer programmer. Culture is about that way of life.

It might depend on the religion and how deeply it affects like. Amish for example don't do the coding. Muslims I believe take prayer breaks which is a recurring aspect of their life. You're making it sound like one's occupation is a culture: so working in fast food is a culture too I guess?

Memes have never accomplished a single thing apart from making the person who posts them look foolish to those not in his clique.

I mean meme in the classic sense that Dawkins used them, I think you're thinking of what I would call a "chan meme poster".

Who needs to argue? We are not a movement. We do not have a cause. Fuck that noise. E-movements always end up looking like clowns the way that Chanology and tumblr and /pol/ did.

I think whether a cause is clownish depends on one's aims.

You have made 1567 edits and 46 comments zx, that's nothing to spit at. You're moving along with me :)

People using their servers to argue IS their business model. "Stand our ground?" Hell, we don't even own the ground that we stand on. It's all private property. There are viable avenues of resistance, but arguing on the internet is not one of them.

Argument, if you won't acknowledge it as resistance itself (I think it's a matter of perspective) can at least be seen as a precursor: it helps us review out thoughts in identifying if there are things worth resisting, and how best to resist them.

I don't know if we can really just consider this a single topic. I feel like we have more memetic complexity than a lot of so-called cultures.

I see very little complexity here. Everything that we create or swipe from the rest of the internet is focused upon one common fetish. If you go to the Stories board there is the occasional pocket of creativity, but the narrative of the works rarely strays far from, "child being sexy." Now, don't get me wrong--I have no problem with the theme, but it hardly strikes me as a uniquely fertile font of originality.

Can you give me an example of something that IS a culture?

Anthropologists fought oover that for decades before they essentially just gave up on the term altogether. The most easily recognizable cultures beyond our own (which is a whole other bag of worms) would likely be something like the tribalism practiced by isolated pockets of humanity like the Australian aborigines, the Aluets in the Northwest Territories or few remaining tribes of the Amazon. You mentioned the Amish, and that may be an example of a culture due to its singularly agrarian system of production.

I see us as a valid social reality on par with many others. We're just not an accepted one.

To be a social reality, a concept must describe a unique and definitive set of activities. We whack it to little girls, but is that in any way distinct from people who whack it to Sonic the Hedgehog? As much as it pains me to say it, I do not think that there is enough of a distinction there to seperate us from the rest of the internet wankers.

Is there 'gay culture' or 'black culture'? Cultures of nations, cultures of religions, cultures of ethnicities?

Absolutely not. All that noise is just affectations. Gay people, black people, people of different creeds--they all live lives that are, upon inspection, stunningly similar to those of others within the same social strata but different identity groups. We humans draw plenty of lines between us, but few of them actually describe anything real.

Different codes, different myths, different rituals, different factions, different temples.

But all serving the same social functions as one another.

In terms of a consistent theme, I think our focus on the freedom of thought, the sharing of complex artwork and ideas, for all the differences in taste I think we share a much more cohesive focal theme than some banal "I like to go to a concert and jump around in a crowd of people".

"Freedom of thought" is less an ideal than it is an inescapable reality. We can think what we will within the limitations of our own minds. It is the freedom to communicate thoughts that we long for but will never have, because we do not control the means by which we do so. As for the notion that our art is complex, I do not know that it is relative to that produced by other fandoms. If you look at the Trekkies or the Whovians or the D&D nerds or the Warhammer players or even the My Little Pony people, they all craft some crazy complex stuff.

That's self-dismissive. We don't just look, we evaluate. We compare. We inspire, we brainstorm. We're having this conversation right now.

What we are doing now is discussion the social nature of our internet clique. To the point, a little while ago I was working with a guy who was part of a translation team for Japanese loli comics. We spent a significant portion of the time joking about how absurd the stories were. There was one or two stories where the narrative was engaging, but those mostly involved girls in one room with a single important prop. My point is that it is exceeding rare that we find a piece of work that we can really spend some time thinking about. Honestly, I would love to find some.

Could it be perhaps that like many words, culture has different definitions with different requirements for varying uses? Perhaps there is a more specific term for what you term culture, or if not, some alternate term for what I am thinking of when I say culture.

Yes indeed, the term "culture" is incredibly ill-defined for something that gets used so often.

It might depend on the religion and how deeply it affects like. Amish for example don't do the coding. Muslims I believe take prayer breaks which is a recurring aspect of their life. You're making it sound like one's occupation is a culture: so working in fast food is a culture too I guess?

Not occupation but rather way of perpetuating one's self. A person who perpetuates himself by going to a place that he does not own to perform a productive activity in an agreed upon amount of time in exchange for access to the goods necessary to keep himself alive plus whatever else it takes to keep him producing (eg. health care, entertainment, transportation, sex, companionship, sanitation, etc.) has a tremendous lot in common with others who perpetuate themselves in the same manner, enough, I would say, to constitute a cultural bond.

I mean meme in the classic sense that Dawkins used them, I think you're thinking of what I would call a "chan meme poster".

On the contrary, I take issue with Dawkins' entire idealist hypothesis. Memes are reflections of societies in which they arise, not their driving force. That much is evidenced by historical record. For example, Max Weber's famous Protestant Work Ethic, which started the whole idea, is particularly ahistorical as it supposedly arose right exactly where workers were refusing to work the most in the North Atlantic system.

I think whether a cause is clownish depends on one's aims.

I don't know how much intent matters in looking like a clown. When I think of comedies, they usually involve characters attempting to accomplish some relatable thing (eg. working, teaching children, fixing something broken, acquiring wealth) in a ridiculous manner. Of course, comedies are not real life, so I imagine that goals constitute some component of the ridiculousness that we see in tumbler and /pol/. But can you really take issue with Chanology's goals? I find it very difficult to disagree with their aims.

You have made 1567 edits and 46 comments zx, that's nothing to spit at. You're moving along with me :)

I-I-I love little girls. They make me feel so good.

Argument, if you won't acknowledge it as resistance itself (I think it's a matter of perspective) can at least be seen as a precursor: it helps us review out thoughts in identifying if there are things worth resisting, and how best to resist them.

An excellent point. Such critique and analysis is useful for formulating a plan within a group that is dedicated to a particular objective. I still question its effectiveness at red-pilling the normies. The uninitiated tend to respond better to propaganda than they do to argument.

oh guys this post was ment to just be a reminder for loli posting guidelines
Not a place for off topic conversations. so could you make a topic dedicated to this conversation or DMs instead?

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